Beneticte’s Interview with Zenovia Hwang on 3/2/15
B: So before we really start, we have to go through an official protocol because this is an official study for my dissertation.
Z: What school?
B: I am going to school in San Francisco at the California Institute for Integral Studies. I am working on my doctoral thesis, dissertation for clinical psychology. After completing this, hopefully I am a doctor in psychology. And my personal interest is the combination of spirituality and psychology. I am bringing them closer together. That is why for my dissertation I wanted to pick a topic that interacts with psychology and spirituality. It is also a topic that people have a bit of a reactant, have a strong reaction to.
Z: Yes I have that with some patients, with some you can talk about the spiritual stuff while some people armor up instantly.
B: They can’t handle it.
Z: No
B: Yep. So I have to start with giving you the Bill of Rights. It states that you do not have to answer any of my questions.
Reading the consent form…5:11
Z: That is your name: Benedicte?
B: Yes Benedicte
Z: Where are you from?
B: From the Netherlands originally. And this is a copy for you
Z: Thank you 6:50
B: And would you like a list of the questions, or would you just like me to ask the questions?
Z: Just ask
B: So first of all: I will explain a little bit.
B: I am interviewing exorcists, people who practice exorcisms from different worldviews. So what I really would like to start with is a little bit of a bio. Some of your personal information: where were you born, where did you grow up, what is your ethnic background and what is your religion and belief system that you grew up in.
Z: I was born in South Korea and came to Seattle when I was 8 years old. I was born and raised Catholic—my name—Zenovia is my baptism name. My parents are devout catholic—I actually had a very good upbringing in the system. I liked the programs and the people—no one tried to force me to think in a certain way. 8:32 There was a weekend retreat when I was in high school—it introduced me to spirit—we were speaking in tongues. And I had visions—but didn’t think much of it then.
Speaking in tongues
Yes
You did that in the Catholic church?
Yes at that retreat.
Really? I have not heard of that in the Catholic Church.
Later on I heard that there were some controversies. but back when I was growing up
Interesting
They were open to it
So this was the Korean Catholic church in Seattle.
Yes
Interesting, cool
Now that you know about it
What time period was that?
That was mid- 1990’s.
Wow, speaking in tongues
Yes, pretty interesting.
And, what else…
Did your parents…you came from Korea, so you are a first generation immigrant.
You and your parents, you were born in Korea.
Yes.
And you went to just American elementary, middle and high school.
Yes, typical elementary, middle and high school
We moved a lot, until high school.
Why did you move?
I don’t know. I think my parents tried to feel out different places, we lived in Florida, some parts of California, but we ended up in.…
They just wanted to figure out where they wanted to live.
Where did they end up?
In Seattle.
Oh, Seattle is where they really ended up.
Yes. 10:32
And you say you had a background in chemistry. Is that what you went to college for?
Yes, I went to University of Washington. I don’t know why I chose chemistry. I had a…I was never really interested in school work. I did a program in high school called running start where I attended community college classes in high school and get college credit. I never liked the regular high school classes—you had go to class and I had bad attendance.
In the Running Start program, as long as you did the homework and you took the exams, you were okay. I guess that habit continued on till college.
I had a very good math and chemistry teacher, so that is why I think I stuck with it when I went to college. I was not really interested in much of anything, and I knew those were easy…
Yes, stick with what you are good at.
I guess in Korean culture college is something you just go to, like going to elementary, middle and high school.
Yes, something you just do. That is laid out for you.
Yes, you go to school and ..
And then when I started working…going to places, collecting information and writing up reports…I was traveling a lot and basically living out of my suitcase. There was a lot of traveling. Every week I was flying to go somewhere. That was after college.
What year did you graduate?
2005
So you travelled and lived out of your suitcase?
Yes, for almost two years, I travelled a lot—only home on weekends.
I started looking at people who were working in the field for 10-20 years and…I couldn’t see myself doing this in the future.
I was always interested in acupuncture.
At that time, I’ve never really tried it. My dad used it. It was part of the culture.
But then you have to keep in mind; not every acupuncture is the same. He tried a bunch of them in Seattle for his shoulder pain. And nothing really worked. Then he tried one practitioner in Vancouver, Canada that gave him instant pain relief.
So I knew that it worked and I became curious. At that time, I did not believe in Chi or energy.
I did not believe in it. If people said acupuncture was good for emotional, psychological issues, I’d say: no way. It was good for pain. That illustrates how familiar I was with it.
So, not at all.
Yes, not at all. 14:25
That is until I met my friend…
She showed me seeing energies, connecting psychically with people, chakras and bunch of different things. Maybe these days everybody knows about it. But to me it was all new…
What were you guys talking about?
Was your friend doing anything with psychic stuff or with energy stuff.
Yes I think she was so open she could tune into things. When she starts to focus, field changes around her, you can feel it. But she just wants to get back into normal life and live like a regular person. She is flighty–all over the place—but she can focus when she wants to.
She is trying to get more grounded.
Yes. She is very special I have never seen anyone….
When I first met her, I did not know that she was that special, but now even after many years of being around “spiritual/psychic” people…I never met anyone with inborn skill like hers.
Does she do anything with it?
No she doesn’t. She has regular job and she doesn’t talk to people about that.
So then you started to become more interested, if I read that correctly.
Yeah, I was curious, because I mean I … well she was telling me directions—things like–
Close your eyes and connect–and when I did, I would see spirals and colors and different things that she mentions—so I knew that what she was saying wasn’t made up.
So you experienced this?
I experienced it immediately—I think it was a combination of my curiosity and her energy.
You became more open as she was more open.
Yes and soon later, my teacher Jerry Alan Johnson…
He was a teacher?
What was he teaching?
He taught Daoist mysticism, Chinese medicine/medical qigong and martial arts. He was very interested in magic.
and exorcism
His background is in Chinese martial arts, Chinese medicine, energy and magic. He had a lot of teachers in China. He brought all the knowledge he learned and organized it into books. He has a temple/school in Monterey.
He still takes trips there every few years. Because they continue to have more stuff. They teach. They are not very open.
Is this mainland China?
This is a slightly hidden I assume.
They are hidden. When you directly ask them they don’t know.
So the training is covert.
So how did you get into it?
He was opening up a daoist mysticism class right when I was starting acupuncture school.
So it was separate from the acupuncture school?
Yes it was separate.
What kind of a class was he offering?
He was teaching taoist mysticism.
We started on soul crafting, incantations, power of words, plant magic, mineral magic, star stuff…All the material was to open up the mind and the energy and connecting to the divine. The more stuff you let go, the more light can come in.
For me, the whole program was basically working on ourselves and seeing the world in a new perspective.
Sifu also had influence from the western magic and Tibetan Buddhism too. I believe his interest was in anything that was mystical. He has a lama, a teacher—from an esoteric shamanic tradition of Tibetan Buddhism.
He incorporated a lot of everything, Tibetan Buddhism, Daoism, Christianity, western magic stuff. What we got was a combination of everything energetic and mystical.
What year did you start that?
In 2008.
Could you tell me a little bit on… how long was the training?
The classes included Taichi and Bagua, Medical Qigong, and the Mysticism class—every Tuesday and Thursday and all day Saturday.
So Tuesdays and Thursdays in the evening.
Yes.
Saturdays was all day from 8-5.
And at the same time you were doing acupuncture school, during the day?
Yes during the day.
College, I breezed by it…I grasped whatever I needed to grasp.
Acupuncture school—I had a couple of great teachers.
I feel like the medical chi gong system, when it is understood, the acupuncture comes easily, because they talk about a lot of the details in acupuncture school, but in the actual clinical setting it is the energy that is what matters. Once you can read the energy all the little details don’t really matter.
So I felt the first two years were really good, but the rest was too tedious, and not very beneficial in a clinical setting. That is how I feel. But it was okay. I got a degree in it.22:53
So acupuncture school was 4 years and you completed that. And you were also …
The training for doctor of medical qigong was a 3-year program—it’s a doctoral program in Chinese Medicine in China. So when you go to China you’re actually recognized as a doctor of Chinese Medicine there.
You did it in 4 years?
Yes.
Wow, that is a lot of work
It seems like it, but you are actually working on yourself, so it was a lot of fun.
And is something that you really wanted.
It is actually the only thing where I never really missed a class. When I was in high school and college, I was never interested in attending class.
But not here, I didn’t want to miss any class.
But not here…
It really spoke to your soul…
Yeah.
I have to take a peak
One of the things that he taught… I don’t think you were taught anything in acupuncture class about exorcism and spirit.
Not much, actually there are points that we learned called ghost points. But no-one really discusses it in detail—at least in San Jose campus. They go: okay ghost points, it helps with mental disturbance…that’s about it. And a style called five element acupuncture–it goes more in detail with emotions and spirits…but not to the degree we were taught in Johnson’s class.
How about with the other education?
We learned a lot about energy removal, parasites, and different types of entities. What you should do with certain kinds of relationships, some thing to stay away from .
Like an entity that has passed and that is lingering on what you should do with that…
I will ask more about that later. It is kinda on my list.
So when was the first time you heard about exorcism?
When you first hear about It is a bit of a shock..it’s something that you absorb and get used to it. You can only talk about it in your group of people. You can’t really be talking to your family or outside the program.
Within the setting of the school it all makes sense, It is a natural part of things.
Yes I know about that.
And …so how did your training as such take place?
So, the training itself, I mean … there were classes…In order to get further training you have to be approved. You have to commit—have to become an initiate of the lineage. Basically if you want to continue you have to become part of it. Otherwise you have to drop out because you can’t be taught anymore.
Being a priest involved being there for the good of others. So for me, it was very easy to take. There weren’t any extreme limitations on becoming a priest—just being true to your conscience and helping others.
What does it take to become a priest? Do you have to go to China for that?
For all Daoist, that is where you go…LongHu Shan…And that initiation was amazing, the most mystical and powerful two weeks.
Where did that happen, in mainland China?
Yes mainland China, at Long Hu Shan Monastery.
The actual rituals itself… involved talismans, ghost beating stick, incantations…and other practices. There were few ceremonies, not just one—I could feel the energies and entities going through me and have never felt so much power/energy around me as during those ceremonies.
A ghost beating stick?
These are the lots of rituals that are handed down.
They can be very detailed…but I think it comes down to one thing if you want to be effective. Have authority over yourself; be a clean vessel—your integrity, power of your words, your intention and focus; the belief and trust in yourself and divine.
Once you set up the space you have to have a secure connection and feel confident.
That is how I know where to touch, what to work on, and what not to work on.
About yourself?
On my patients. The things you do and what you don’t do
Can you explain that a little more, what you touch what you don’t touch, what you work on and what you don’t work on and how that relates to your certainty and to yourself?
I felt presences where the hair would stand up on my back—and it’s not just ghost-type energy. It has a demonic/dark feeling to it. When that happens I don’t do too much—their field is not normal anyways or open where I can work on it. It is a very strong thing inside that person. It lets itself known it’s there but doesn’t come out.
And that is something that I don’t want to be involved in this waking state. Because I believe, once you go into that realm, that it …not backfires, but… you have to be in tip-top shape 24/7, because these things are very smart, and conscious, and they are not just little….
And I am not at a point in my life where I want to be involved in demonic exorcisms, as I do not have the time or space to purify and protect those around me.
If you are working with that kind of energy, you have to purify yourself before and after…for days and days, if not forever…
I hear similar things from practitioners in other belief systems. This is one reason why I am asking these questions, because I want to tease out all these similarities and the differences.
I think that is why, in a sense, that Catholic exorcism is powerful. The Catholic priests that do exorcisms practice and live in the church, holy water, prayers, celibate…and a stronger line of energy, that is bigger.
Absolutely.
Another thing is …I don’t know if you currently do dream work?
Yes
I do spirit extractions in my dream space.
You do exorcisms in your dreams?
I have a very active detailed dreams.
Around the time when I started the program. … in the dream, I am making whirlwinds/vortex and this is before I was learning about spirits. And I’d have no fear in my dreams…I am exorcising these people, who I do not know. And sometimes I do know them and I’m casting off the dark entities that were attached to them.
Sometimes the darkness is so powerful—I can feel it’s strength. But always—the whirlwind and speaking in tongues work all the time. And I’d just have so much conviction and power within myself in the dream state.
Interesting.
Due to my experience in the dream world, sometimes when I’d encounter people going through signs of possession, I believe if they are ready for change, they can get rid of it. And then there are people that are working on entity removals but can’t get rid of it until they have resolved whatever has caused it. 36:24
When the patient is ready, the exorcist will show up in person or in the dream.
Yes. and mental disorders…will you be to asking about that?
Yes, that is coming up.
Is there anything of importance of you becoming an exorcist that I haven’t asked.
It is the conviction and how clear you are in yourself—standing ground and maintaining the clarity while these things are actively opposing.
for me the initial real experience dealing with powerful negative forces was from the dreams … my dreams were so vivid and lively…There was a stage when I did not know what was real and dream. It was so vivid and real. That’s what trained me my conviction and experience in real life..
And I know that you do a whole range of work, but for this interview,I am interested on the exorcism part.
In doing exorcism, who are your clients?
On my website: I do Chinese medicine. Specifically, people don’t come for exorcism. Some people might have questions like: Is there some entity attached.
What?
They wonder if they have entities or parasites on them. Some people come for that, but mostly is it for other sicknesses that they want to get rid off …They have… I call them idiopathic, because they don’t know what caused their illness or have went to various other medical professionals but haven’t gotten any better.
I get a range from mental to physical illnesses.
What are the symptoms?
Depression, anxiety, OCD, Lymes, bipolar, it could be manifesting as anything. Chinese medicine treats everything. There are headaches, shoulder pain, back pains, mental problems, fibroids, or infertility.
Actually I get a lot of infertility patients…And that is another story with fetal hauntings. You can call it exorcism, but you remove an attached fetal soul.
We call them baby beings.(39:19)
Some people are open to that information, but some people, I don’t tell them what happened.
And what is the reason that people are possessed? I am teasing out a bit of the worldview. What … why are people possessed, because the reasons are different in different worldviews.
Yes, this also is a big spectrum, because for me… it is a range, from very strong, to a minimal possession.
I believe to a certain point that everybody is possessed. To a certain point. (40:14)
One time or another…people can have anxiety or people who worry constantly, you can say they have parasites on them. it sticks on them and keeps them in their toxic state…they feed on their energy, and they keep triggering and making negative things happen in their lives.
And they keep them in that cycle, they can’t get rid of it. Or sometimes, say a thing is attached around the shoulder, and eventually it becomes symbiotic and people don’t even bother removing it. Because they are not in an environment where it is safe to remove it; because they are in a survival mode. And that is one of the reasons I believe that possession, in a minor sense is for survival.
Could you say that again please?
Survival?
Yes, possession is…
That kind of possession on the spectrum is on the minor side, the less severe side; it is needed for survival. That’s why these beings attach to them.
As a way of coping or surviving the stressors of live, or relationships. Or whatever…
What ever the emotions, they are used to that kind of energy or environment, or… it makes them seek out things that might help. Some people turn to pharmaceuticals. I think especially these days people are seeking out more…
people who come to me, they want to change. These things are pushing them to find a better state…It is not quite evolution, but they become more conscious and aware, starting activities like meditation, becoming more mindful, forgiving, doing qigong..
So in a sense, in the people that I see, the illnesses they’ve had for a long time are pushing to get more into alignment…
there’s also ancestral karma. I have seen patterns in generations where it gets passed down. 42:57
and…nature spirits..My experiences with nature spirits, they are very strong. That is why I don’t engage them. because usually the bond is mutual and they are very powerful. Who knows. But it is something that when I opened them up, and the whole room shifted and changed… It did not feel dark, but…
There’s a lot of reasons why they attach to a person..
One of the reasons I have come across, as the reason that people are possessed is maybe the link to coping skills and the existence of trauma in a person’s life. Is that something you are working with?
Yes, trauma is deep…and the more severe the trauma, the stronger and deeper it goes energetically. And for some, they believe that they’ve never had any trauma, but I think a lot of things can be traumatic, it’s just that they don’t recognize it as trauma, and we can ’t put a label on it, but it is in there. And I think that, the deeper the trauma, the stronger the dark energy resides inside.
That seems to be a universal … all over the
How do you diagnose if a person is possessed?
The minor things is usually: I see…I feel different things when I open them up. Sometimes I actually see parasites like snake like energies. .
You see them?
You see like…a worm, long windy stuff, wrapping around the organs.
You see it?
Yes.
I can see it wrapping around..I can feel it going up.
So those are what I call parasites. Or sometimes I find a tight rope and that turns out to be a curse.
They are not very conscious.
They are conscious in a sense that they trigger the person to keep on replicating the toxic emotional cycle…
So kind of a limited consciousness
Yes
And kinda spirits with a somewhat higher consciousness, how do you notice that?
So for the people… that have…how do you call it… people who passed away, that are still lingering on, those I can actually talk to during the treatment.
And lingering on, it’s not necessary always a bad thing—they are hanging out with the person for a bit. So those ancestors, I just let the person on the table know that there are still certain people around them.
That their mother hasn’t quite left yet?
They get very emotional. Because some patients can feel it too once they connect. And a lot of times, they are the ones who actually brought them in here, to let them release.
That happens more often than not. I would not call that an exorcism, it is more just…You tell them that you are done, that you no longer need to be here. That it is okay…hooking them up to that light.
Yes. Yes that happens a lot.
You also mentioned before that there were some that would give you goose bumps.
Yes, again on the spectrum.
Then on the middle part are the people that I work on they are physically lifting when I pull stuff out of them. And they get physically getting lifted up, like…their bodies are contorting, lifting, their torsos lifting…
As you are pulling this out. The patient of the table is moving?
yes and they are moving up as I pull on them—they are contorting and cringing
You have to keep your connection. The patients are completely out when that happens. Most don’t remember anything. But the thing is: a lot of times with that kind of entity, it doesn’t matter, it will come back. Because the person, we give them homework, things that will help with their own spiritual centeredness. And on their spiritual path to keep clear and be more aware, They have to watch out what they are thinking, what they are doing. But not everyone does their homework—they get back to their usual mind patterns and habits. 50:01
So when they come back next time it is right back again.
Until they are really ready to let it go?
Yes, if ever.
Maybe a couple of lifetimes from now. Sometimes I see the patient in my dream before they come in. What caused it…I would see…their childhood or a parallel life times that would relate to their illness. And it is interesting, because when they are telling me about their history, for them there was no trauma…just a stressed out dad…. But in the dream that was the core issue why they brought the energy in, when it started.
But they did not have the concept that it was a traumatic experience, but their soul or their body has registered it as a traumatic experience?
And what are the symptoms that you are looking for. Are there certain symptoms that you are looking for?
When they come in I do not specifically look for spiritual entities. If I see about 30 people, only about 10 would have spiritual entities or parasites with them.
Not that often. Or at least it does not pop up during the session. And certain things just don’t come up because it is hidden in there.
For me it means it is not the right time for them or for me to go in there. I believe that there’s a lot more than a third of society with entities/parasites… a lot more… I believe, when I am walking on the street, if I’m unaware, and in a mood or having a bad day, then it’s so easy to attach. This is why meditation or qigong is so important. It’s needed every day for a clearing—like an energetic shower. 52:44
So one of the things that, as a psychologist I am trained to look for mental illness. And I know that different worldview have different ideas about what mental illness actually is. And for some worldviews it is more integrated with spirituality than others. So I would like to know what is your worldview about mental illness, like schizophrenia, depression, bi-polar disorder, to name a few. Psychosis.
There was a guy diagnosed with schizophrenia, who asked for help. And what I saw was his ancestors. His family was from a strong Buddhist faith, very spiritual. He was energetically very faint, ungrounded, very floaty. And what happened was that… I didn’t tell this to them, but there is a female entity that is telling him to do things. What I saw was he had a lot of trauma from his wife. There was a point where there was a financial disaster…there was a lot of stress and that’s when a similar vibration of a female entered him and he let it, because he wanted to tune out… a way to escape. And he let this being in. And that is when…
You say that is when he started hearing the female voices?
He just obeyed what she said, as a way to escape when he didn’t want to be fully there. He didn’t want to deal with his life, so he kinda gave her space to come in.
in my view of diseases, yes, it is chemical but the thing is… any, everything is spiritual first… and then that changes the physical body, hormones, chemicals, whatever it is, But is starts from the spiritual level.
That’s kind a very powerful sentence: Everything is spiritual first, and then becomes physical, chemical.
You see it all the time when working on a body, in the higher vibration–everything starts with a thought and an emotion. And when they don’t deal with it becomes slower and slower, until it affects the organs, the glands and the physical body.
So, like depression—depression in a sense could be a presence of chronic entity or being within. Depression could be in itself a lot of different things. The negative thoughts in people’s heads…stemming from the self, but that much energy… it could produce so much negative energy. Their thought is strong enough that any being, any entity that feeds on that energy, is attracted to it. So eventually, no matter what it is, if you have a strong enough emotion, things are going to be attracted to it. You may have them with you, you may pick it up or something else might be just…
But the more chronic it is, the more likely it is that you they have something else with them. 57:57
Especially in a family, with things genetic, like schizophrenia, people with depression–their energy body is similar to their parents from when they were young. I have seen genetic DNA, as energy field around them. It attracts certain things, genetically. So the energy field of a person attracts a certain thing, that is why they call it hereditary.
So mental illness such as depression, it could be part of the person, herself or himself, or a family thing, a thought thing, and there could be a spiritual component to it?
Yes, as with anything it depends on the situation and the person. It could be any one of those things, or a combination of everything.
So the key question of my dissertation is how do you determine if this is a spiritual the rest of the information I want to bring out.
How do you determine of it is physical or spiritual, mental illness or spiritual possession.
One, I guess, the length of time that they’ve had it. The longer time, the more chronic, the more likely that it is a being. Because from your question… remember how for me everything is spiritual. It is spiritual first. Everything is spiritual.
But to answer your question: it is the length and then in the intake especially, if it has been running in families, it is usually a parasitic entity.
Then if it runs in the family, it is an entity?
It triggers that. I can seek out when it started by energetically opening up certain areas of the body and trace. When it started in time energetically… when it goes back to the birth than it usually runs in the family, it’s a thing passed on, over and over. it gets passed down in families.
But for me all mental illness is a form of possesion…just in differing spectrum of entities.
Sometimes the patient tells you they are dealing with spirits and sensations themselves.
What’s interesting is that with bipolar or schizophrenic patients, they are so in tune with the true reality of things…their sense of the world is not just limited to normal 3D. So what they perceive–and depending on what their background is, they might sound very crazy, but when you understand that these things they are describing are real, you begin to understand and can really help them get rid of these things and empower them ways to actually get rid of them when they see or feel it.
Also of interesting note is the Lyme’s patients–they really have energetic parasites on their field…there’s a distinct energy resonance coming off from people that has been diagnosed with Lyme’s. There’s a commonality of most of Lyme’s patients…why they let it in.
What does your treatment plan look like?
The patient really has to be aware and willing to let it go…
When I work on people’s energy bodies. Sometimes the deeper I go in these things start opening up. You feel it opening up and you feel the room change. You connect, and you are enveloped in light and … And I hold them there, some things I just throw down, some things I give to the light and let the others deal with it.
Some things you throw down?
What are the things you throw down?
Just weird stuff, you can call them like snakes, and weird forms, and slimy stuff, black puffs, but they are coming up, the stuff.
Oh yeah also another thing, we also work with guardians. Everybody has guardians. They know what to do. When I feel like I need to lift it up and there are other beings who know what to do with it: dissolve or whatever… Because my job is in this realm: there is only this much I can do. And other stuff, they take care of that.
I know about Akashic record keeper. This is the record keeper if you complete a process, you check in with that person’s Akashic record keeper: “This process has been completed, please file the changes.” But we will look back into that. That is the other part.
I know what you are talking about.
But your question on what makes it spiritual or physical. My answer is that everything is spiritual, but maybe it goes both ways. You can say that, a mom who is pregnant, they can be thinking thoughts that can alter her baby’s brain chemistry and this can cause some psychological issues.
It goes back to the vibration with which the baby was brought in. He knew what he was born into, and that chemical change in itself would invite him to be a certain way so that he would be attracted to these entities. It’s like that question: what comes first, the egg or the chicken? It goes both ways: everything is spiritual. Even when it has a chemical imbalance, it becomes spiritual in a sense we are working it out every day; and spirit is everywhere. Any normal person can at times be attached or possessed. People with a chemical imbalance, it will make them have stronger response, it will give them power. It gives them power, it helps them in a certain way. Definitely most people are attracting these entities unconsciously.
There are of course people who wants to call them in consciously. That is a whole different story.
But unconsciously calling them in brings you back to trauma and survival and it gives them power, or some kind of safety, almost like…
I don’t know if you are familiar with medications, but the drugs tune them out. it doesn’t deal with their problems. The schizophrenia example– it made him more…absent, He was not present at all. After I saw him the family decided to put him on medication…to the family he felt safer, because he was no longer doing things that were hurtful..but he was walking around like a zombie.
Or biolar disorder…the medication might work initially, but I found human brain is very adaptable and will with the medication where the person will either develop different mental/physical issues or still have their mania/depression…just not frequently..but more severe episodes…
I think everything goes back to spirit. And we need to help them more getting them more mindful, meditating, forgiving, something physical like qigong, or tai chi, moving some energy, yoga, breathing. Especially people who are in their head. And of course some form of spiritual practice.
Some people can’t meditate. Some people need to get more aware of their senses, so that they can feel when they are fully themselves, or something else is controlling their thoughts and behavior. 1:07:56
In the bigger picture, I believe there is no good or bad. Everything just is. Yin and Yang. And the dark beings, the lower vibrational beings, they are there to push you up to a higher vibration state. Because without them you would just be blocked. There would be no point to change. These things are required for our development, I guess. The problem arises when people rely on medicating with pharmaceuticals, and never finding out why or what is wrong with them. And then they become stagnant and it does not fulfill the purpose of the darker, lower vibrational beings.
The purpose of the being there is to go past this and get into a higher vibrational state.
Go past the stagnation and actually take action?
What is exactly, if you take out an entity, you talked a little bit about it, what does it look like, an exorcism, or when you take an entity out? What does it look like?
What does the entity look like or treatment itself?
Usually the person is completely out or in their own out of body experience. The patient’s face changes, their torso might be lifting, contortion, smells…
For me it is mostly staying with my mind, creating with my mind and little gestures and seals. But it is not something dramatic. We learn dramatic and detailed rituals as a priest—but I have to go back to what I’m familiar with. Which is simplicity and authority.
I don’t want to scare people. I am not presenting myself as an exorcist.
People wouldn’t be open to that. Just a medical qigong practitioner, doing energy work and Chines medicine.
Does the patient realize what happens? 1:11:22
Some of them notice. They notice the difference. Most I would say are out…but some can describe what was taken out.
Some of this… there is this whole range of things you could take out, there are different grades who have a little bit of a different procedure, or is the procedure the same?
The procedure is the same until you get more conscious, more…smarter ones, then I bring in help. These more conscious ones…I can feel them interacting with my mind–sometimes they start asking for my history…it’s very subtle…like images and pictures of my past. That is why you really have to be aware of your thoughts constantly.
You bring in spiritual help, spiritual helpers?
Yes, I separate them and envelope them in a bubble and then keep it there until it starts shifting. That would be the difference, but the little stuff, I can just pull them out.
Pull it out, take it out and throw it away?
Is that what you are saying?
Yes.
And then for the people who have passed away it is something else. I would not throw them out.
Talk to them counsel them, where to go next. Do you help them pass on?
Yes
When they have passed away you help them move on?
But in my experience, in most cases they are not ready yet. They have stuff with their family that is the reason they are lingering on, so they know they can go, but they have… stuff to finish…
You said something about the ghost beating stick.
Is there anything… do you sometimes use that? Because one of the questions is: what kind of material do you use for an exorcism.
There are a lot of things, incantations, talismans to bind evil, bind spirit…
There is power in tradition, very powerful…but those are tools. You have to know what they are for. Everything has a energetic lineage and power behind them—once you connect with the power they become powerful tools. People have used the same incantations or talismans to bind evil and and that becomes stronger and stronger over time—also some are like a phone call to helping entities to come and help.
But..when you get down to it—they are there so you can train yourself to get to that state.
That is, what I hear from you, mostly you use your certainty, your alignment, your mind, you own certainty.
Definitely authority and knowing you have good/god behind you is the key.
Because you can try different incantations or prayers but if it doesn’t ring strong within you then they are not effective. You have to pick and stick with the one most powerful.
I realized that the simpler and less distracting and feels the most natural, which for me is speaking in tongues or Lord’s Prayer, that in itself works instantly. The energy changes.
That is another essence of your work, the simplicity, the certainty?
Apart from you and your client is there anybody else involved in an exorcism?
During treatment?
Yes.
No.
Just you and the patient, and your spiritual help if you need it?
They are always there, I feel that everyone gets what they get: Karma and everything that they have done or wants to experience. So I try not to worry about the success of the treatment. There’s always timing also and different layers of the issue.
You said a little bit about your success rate, that with some spirits you are more successful than others.
It depends if the person does the homework, and if they are more conscious, and more aware of what caused it, what is causing that state inside of them, then they can work on it and shift their energy permanently.
But more people are in that state because of the life they live. It is very hard for them to change just because of what I tell them. So they stay in their previous state.
So usually, if they don’t shift after 2-3 months than it is not time yet, and I refer them out… Maybe later on they can come back. I tell them what it is, and these are the things you need to do to get better….working with stagnation here. And they don’t want to change.
So in getting better there are three things: me, the patient and…. universe. I know what they need to do, but the patient also needs to feel what they need to do. Because there is a reason why these things got on to them in the first place. And that is something that they need to work on. What are they are producing out there. That is what is attracting these things into them here and that is what they need to work on. And a lot of times.. I think: “There are a lot of people that go to psychotherapy and half the people that come here have a therapist, they talk because they…”
That is my next question, by the way.
So a lot of people who come here and they have a therapist?
A lot of people have mental, emotional problems, and then they say the physical, but when I see it is all connected. Yes, when we work on the body, we blast it with energy, shake it up and take it off…the stuffed emotions come up and you get a lots of emotions and memories.
So when I am working on people I always tell them for about three, four days they will be on a roller coaster ride emotionally. And that is usually what happens, because it opens up the stuff stored inside. And that is when they want to go talk to someone, especially if it takes awhile to talk.
When talking about it the energy releases then closes a little and then there is more to work to do. Like onion layers.
Is it actually… It would be very interesting for me to know: What do psychotherapist know about the work that you do?
Not really, some of them do. I work with two—one in Los Gatos and one in San Jose. One of them was very open. He does his own shamanic retreats out in deserts and he was aware of this.
But the other one was: “What are these things you’re talk about?”
Because they are psychotherapist they are not supposed to do this work. I can do similar kind of work, but I am not supposed to do this on my clients, patients. Kinda… I can imagine that there are psychotherapists who are really find it wonderful to work with you.
I hope so.
This is my personal interest.
People accept it as an acupuncture/ clinical treatment. They don’t really think of it as the way you are thinking about it.
Spiritual
In a way the acupuncture is accepted as a non-spiritual way in.
It has become…it had to be westernized to be accepted i guess, yes.
So you hinted on this, but how often do people come back for treatment?
You said about 6 times before it sticks.
I see ups and downs, they get better then they struggle, before they get much better.
When they respond well to the first session, then I recommend they come every week or if they can every 3-4 days for about 6 times. That’s just for depression/anxiety…etc
For those with bipolar or schizophrenia, I work with them on a weekly basis continually, until they are much more stable in their life. Which surprisingly doesn’t take much more than 3 months or so, in my experience…of course depending on the nature of the patient. If they are really dedicated and willing to change, you can see the change within a month.
Do you work together with mental health professionals?
I’ve referred out to psychotherapists, NDs, psychics, and other healers. Especially if the patient is absorbing my energy but that energy is getting fed to their false identity or entity they are in symbiosis with. I can’t get rid of something if they are holding on tight to it as survival.
And you probably will get referrals back.
And is there anything else of important to the process of exorcism that I haven’t asked.
Well she really should have asked this, because it is important.
I sometimes see the the demonic entities through the possessed person’s eye. They are not going to come in for help because they are not ready…or even want to…or know any other way to live. But I see them on the streets..not too often but they are out there. Can be a clean cut teenager, an old biker-rocker, a tire salesman, everywhere.
They are intelligent..their eyes have such knowingness…some just look sharp—like they are piercing through you…They have an unnatural power to their gaze that’s not human.…and some have such slimy sleazy energy it’s hard to even look at their eye too long because you start to see what they did to people.
These people—some might’ve been playing around with magic and wanted popularity or love or an identity. Some probably really sold their soul—and it’s not some kind of ritual they do with the devil…everyone makes a conscious choice everyday to be “good” or “bad”. Not going against your conscience—once you start on going the other way, it can get deep—and these darker energies start feeding on your mental energies and emotions, eventually losing themselves and these things start taking over. And of course there’s karma from past lives and just contracts for them and those around them for experience.
They know I see them..but so far that’s about it. I don’t need to interact with them and I don’t get them unless I can help the patient.
The things that I deal with are more neutral in the sense that they don’t have this demonic aspect to the point that they are making the patient become like the people in Exorcist movie. There were a few times that I encountered the demonic energies. It’s a complicated story. But entities jump around, depending on what they are attracted to. And it could be harmless on one person, such as feeding on a child needing attention but changing to a powerful demonic entity in another setting which has more people are gathered that are needing attention.
They can jump from one person to another?
Oh yeah..all the time.
Yes I have heard that.
How did this work affect you?
I am more of myself. If you don’t know what your own emotion is, other’s things can easily stick to you, especially when you are working with a lot of people opening them up. When I don’t clean myself energetically it effects me instantly: my interaction with people, how I feel. How I am influenced.
So it is constant..I have to be aware, and even for how the people around me act.
When I go home, I know the things that are hanging around me, they can jump. They have to be cleaned off. It is a lot of work. And I have to deal with my emotions right away—it’s so easy to close it off and put it aside and forget about it.
But I haven’t had many personal demonic experiences, apart from the few times. And those few times, I had to find the cause. And as soon as I find the center you realize that it is all within you, in your mind. There… but once you snap out of it, it dissolves. And always a factor, whether it is for learning experience or that it is something you need to forgive. There is a connection. That is why I think there is a reason why this is happening. And once you get to that, the energy dissolves and it completely disappears. It’s like calm after the storm…
The entities are attracted to negative energy and hate and unforgiving. And once you forgive and let go of anger, neediness, and the lower vibrational energies, they have nothing to attach to. So no matter how demonic, it gets pushed away instantly.
And people experience these things when they look inside.
In a sense these demonic things are not real, in a sense. Because the attraction is a vibration: it does not belong anymore once you don’t vibrate at the same level. It is that easy to keep it away.
What do you do for self-care in this work.
Without taichi or bagua I would not be able to do this, because if I don’t clear myself instantly I get a physical rash, heat, or nausea.
So yea, martial arts, like tai chi, it is very important.I need that to push all the energy out.
Good to know
Of course meditation helps a lot. I also wash it off with water. But the level I’m dipping into gets finer and finer. And the finer stuff lingers on. And that is when I need the energetic exercises to push it out.
When I work on people, whatever emotional imbalance I have, it becomes more imbalanced. So need to clean off.
Right at that moment?
Usually right after, at the end of a session, I go: “Can I take a shower”.
There are a lot of similarities between the way that you work and the way that I work.
Is there anything that you wanted to add?
This work is very fulfilling.
When the patients are changing, they are so grateful. And then you feel so energized afterwards. The energy is constantly running basically. I get energized emotionally. But I have to go and take a shower. Take a bath.
For exorcist movie kind of exorcism…
I think you have to have a certain calling and willingness. I think you are called to do it, but you can also deny being that. It requires to sacrifice your normal life. You have to devote yourself, like the Catholic priests do. You have to really devote yourself to just that, give up yourself to just do that. And not have… because form my understanding, if you care about something, you can loose it. Because these things are very smart and they come back and on top of that it…there are different levels of demonic states. And it just becomes stronger. And you really need to be constantly aware of…safety of yourself and everything you care about around you. But if you look at the big picture as in Daoism–it’s just training for yourself to become more whole…there is no yang without the yin.
Thank you so very much
This has been very beautiful to listen to all the work that you are doing. There are a couple of sentences that stand out. And everything is spiritual and then it becomes physical
Thank you very much
Thank you.
